中文、日文和韩文是否相关?

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阳光使者 2024-4-16 17:09:57 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
您会说不止一种语言吗?如果有,是哪些?中文、日语和韩语是世界上最常用的三种语言,许多使用者分布在世界各地。虽然这三者都有其独特的复杂性,但它们也有一些相似之处,使它们在某些方面非常相似,而在其他方面却非常不同。

中文、日文和韩文是否相关?

中文、日文和韩文是否相关?

Harpfully
9小时前
I speak some Japanese and Korean.The weird thing is that the grammar is surprisingly similar, and I don't know how that happens without them being related. So maybe there's something to the Altaic theory.

我会说一些日语和韩语。奇怪的是,它们的语法出奇地相似,我不知道它们之间怎么会没有联系,所以阿尔泰语的理论也许是有道理的。


One thing you didn't talk much about is that both Korean and Japanese have many non-native words borrowed from Chinese (not just the writing of the words), which usually get modified according to the phonology, but you hear a lot of similarities.

有一点你没有多说,那就是韩语和日语都有很多从汉语借来的非母语词汇(不仅仅是词汇的书写),这些词汇通常会根据语音进行修改,但你会听到很多相似之处。


Coolbrotherf
9小时前
Yeah, even if they aren't in the Altaic family, they are too similar to have not descended from a common language a long time ago. Most likely from people from ancient Mongolia that migrated to the Korean Peninsula and then to the Japanese islands.

是的,即使它们不属于阿尔泰语系,它们也太相似了,不可能不是很久以前一种共同语言的后裔。很有可能是古代蒙古人迁徙到朝鲜半岛,然后再迁徙到日本列岛。


Superpower
9小时前
chinese can be considered one language depending on how you define a language. long story short, all chinese "dialects" uses the same exact written language, but some of the "dialects" are so unintelligible that they might as well be considered different languages

中文可以被认为是一种语言,这取决于你如何定义一种语言。长话短说,所有的中国“方言”都使用相同的书面语言,但有些“方言”是如此难以理解,以至于它们可能被认为是不同的语言!


MichaelSidney
9小时前
yes and no.but chinese grammar is similar to German grammar but certainly is not related, thus there are only so many ways grammar can be formed. The Altaic theory has been long disproven. What the confusion was is that languages in close proximity tend to influence each other, even though they did not come from each other.  

是也不是,但汉语语法与德语语法相似,但肯定没有关联,因此语法的形成有很多种方式,阿尔泰理论早已被推翻。令人困惑的是,相近的语言往往会相互影响,即使它们并非来自彼此。


Korean and Japanese as well as Chinese have lived in close proximity for a long time. Japanese and Korean are not genetically related languages, however, they do share some similar traits, including grammar, many loan words from Chinese and some words borrowed from each other. But linguists are fairly certain they are isolates.

韩语、日语和汉语长期生活在相邻地区。日语和韩语在基因上并不相关,但它们确实有一些相似的特征,包括语法、许多从汉语借来的词和一些相互借用的词,但语言学家相当肯定它们是孤立的语言。


Apollothefirst
8小时前
I got egg on my face years ago supporting the Altaic branch until it was very clearly proven to me that it isn't actually true, and was just a pipe dream of the person who came up with.  They did a lot of research carefully and definitively showed there is no genetic relationship.These languages share some things purely through borrowing being they originated through areas of regional contact.

多年前,我支持阿尔泰语支的观点,结果被证明不是真的,只是提出者的空想。他们做了大量仔细的研究,最终证明这两者之间没有遗传关系。这些语言纯粹是通过借用而共享一些东西,因为它们起源于地区接触。


Weifan
8小时前(修改过)
I'm a native speaker of Mandarin, I have some knowledge of Cantonese and Zhuang (a Tai-Kradai language spoken in South China), and also know some Japanese words and phrases and studied Korean at university several years ago (though have already forgotten most of it).

我的母语是普通话,对粤语和壮语(一种在中国南方使用的侗台语系)也有一些了解,还知道一些日语单词和短语,几年前在大学里学习过韩语(尽管已经忘记了大部分内容)。


For me, despite some superficial similarities, all these languages are quite distinctive and unique. Though I feel that there's a strong similarity between Cantonese and Zhuang in terms of tones and grammar, and also a strong similarity between Japanese and Korean in terms of grammar.

对我来说,尽管这些语言在表面上有一些相似之处,但它们都非常独特。虽然我觉得粤语和壮语在声调和语法上有很强的相似性,日语和韩语在语法上也有很强的相似性。


Maco
8小时前
I speak all of them, lol. And to be honest, it's effortless when you learn the 3rd and 4th one because each is related one way or another. The grammar of Japanese and Korean are similar. Vietnamese and Chinese are not so similar but are part of. And a lot of loan words in Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese are from Chinese, so they sound almost the same.

我会说所有的语言,哈哈~~老实说,当你学会第 3 和第 4 种语言时,学习起来并不费力,因为每种语言都有这样或那样的联系。日语和韩语的语法很相似。越南语和汉语不太相似,但都是其中的一部分。日语、韩语和越南语中的很多借词都来自中文,因此它们听起来几乎一样。


And you know what, Vietnamese and Chinese are both tonal languages, so if you know how to pronounce one, you can learn to pronounce the other. Cross-learning between Vietnamese and Japanese (or Korean ) can give you a hard time because the writing system and grammar are so different, but when you overcome it you can learn Korean (or Japanese) so much easier, and later you can learn Chinese quite easily because you are already familiar with a lot of Kanji.

而且,越南语和汉语都是声调语言,所以如果你知道其中一种语言的发音,就可以学习另一种语言的发音。越南语和日语(或韩语)之间的交叉学习可能会给你带来一些困难,因为它们的书写系统和语法是如此不同,但是当你克服了这个困难,你就可以更容易地学习韩语(或日语),之后你就可以很容易地学习汉语,因为你已经熟悉了很多汉字。


Weifan
7小时前
It depends on which variety of Chinese you're talking about. Vietnamese might not be that similar to the dominant variety Mandarin but it's very similar to Cantonese both in terms of tones and grammar, and to the untrained ear they sound almost the same.

这取决于您说的是哪种汉语。越南语可能与主流的普通话不是那么相似,但它与广东话在声调和语法方面都非常相似,而且对于未经训练的耳朵来说,它们听起来几乎一样。


In fact I'd propose the Guangdong-Vietnam sprachbund; languages within this sprachbund such as Cantonese (Sinitic), Zhuang (Tai-Kradai), and Vietnamese (Austroasiatic) all share similar features including having a plethora of tones, generally monosyllabic in nature, and having the noun modifier placed after the noun it modifies, etc.

事实上,我建议使用广东-越南语系;该语系中的语言,如粤语(汉族)、壮语(侗台语系)和越南语(奥斯特罗西亚语),都有相似的特点,包括音调繁多、一般为单音节、名词修饰语放在所修饰的名词之后等。


Hongdalai
10小时前
They are not related but Japanese, Korean and Vietnamese borrowed a lot of Chinese vocabulary plus Japanese and Korean borrowed some vocabulary from each other.

它们没有关系,但日语、韩语和越南语借用了很多汉语词汇,日语和韩语也互相借用了一些词汇。


Porytlim  
9小时前
They ARE related. Just look at the map. There were no real borders back then. And they look the same. That means they are related. It is like America is mix of many European origins and China, Korea and Japan are also a mix of many groups. Even Japanese scholar says they are mix of Yaoi people.

它们是相关的,看看地图就知道了,那时还没有真正的边界。它们看起来是一样的,这说明它们是相关的。这就好比美国是许多欧洲血统的混合体,而中国、韩国和日本也是许多群体的混合体。就连日本学者也说他们是瑶族的混血儿。


Illjwamh
9小时前(修改过)
One thing you didn't mention is that when the Chinese characters were imported, the Chinese pronunciation of a lot of them (or a localized approximation, anyway) was imported too. Japanese has what's called "on-yomi" and "kun-yomi", or "Chinese reading" and "Japanese reading" respectively.

你没有提到的一点是,在汉字被引进的同时,很多汉字的中文发音(或本地化的近似发音)也被引进了。日语有所谓的 "on-yomi"和 "kun-yomi",即 "中文读音"和 "日文读音"。


The Chinese reading will often be used in multi-character compound words (like "kanji", for instance) and specialized concepts, much the way we in English will use Latin and Greek roots to build new words, like "telephone". Korean is similar, which is why if you speak one language, you can sometimes get the gist of what someone using the other is saying, since they're using the same Old Chinese roots for some of their vocabulary.

中文读音通常用于多字复合词(如 "汉字")和专业概念,就像我们在英语中使用拉丁语和希腊语词根来造新词(如 "电话")一样。韩语也是类似的情况,这就是为什么如果你会说一种语言,有时就能听懂使用另一种语言的人在说什么,因为他们的一些词汇使用了相同的古汉语词根。


Andypham  
9小时前
King Sejong didn't merely decree that a new writing system should be made. He was a scholar, and is largely credit as developing the script himself.

世宗并不只是下令制定新的文字系统。他是一位学者,他自己开发了文字,这在很大程度上是有功劳的。


Warpwaffel
10小时前
This is just my non-academic take but I think that the Sinosphere can be broadly divided into two Sprachbunds (non-genetic groupings of similar languages):

这只是我的非学术性看法,但我认为,汉语圈大致可分为两个语群(相似语言的非遗传分组):


The Sino-Vietnamese sprachbund, with languages such as Mandarin, Wu, Cantonese, and Vietnamese all are tonal and analytic languages. Often, Cantonese (spoken in southern china) sounds more like Vietnamese than Mandarin, despite technically being “Chinese”. It just goes to show how close these languages were in proximity.

中越语系,包括普通话、吴语、粤语和越南语,它们都是声调语言和分析语言。通常,粤语(在中国南方使用)听起来更像越南语,而不是普通话,尽管在技术上它是 "汉语"。这恰恰说明了这些语言之间的距离有多近。


The Koryo-Japonic sprachbund, made up of Korean, Japanese, and the other minor languages. Due to what was probably close contact in the Korean peninsula before the ancestors of the modern Japanese migrated into the Japanese archipelago, Japanese and Korean share a lot of grammatical features and even have similar sounding particles and basic words. These languages are so similar structurally that entire sentences can be translated one-to-one, which is remarkable, because of how unique many of the features of these languages are.

由朝鲜语、日语和其他小语种组成的高丽-日本语语系。在现代日本人的祖先迁徙到日本列岛之前,朝鲜半岛上可能就有过密切接触,因此日语和韩语有许多共同的语法特征,甚至有发音相似的微粒和基本词汇。这些语言在结构上非常相似,以至于整个句子都可以一对一地翻译,这一点非常了不起,因为这些语言的许多特点都是独一无二的。


Hishamhamed
9小时前
I might add that in South Korea, most people's second language is Japanese.They explained to me that Japanese has the same structure as Korean.

我想补充一点,在韩国,大多数人的第二语言是日语。他们向我解释说,日语的结构与韩语相同。


Weifan
8小时前
You're absolutely right! And I'd like to add that these two domains exist not just linguistically but genetically as well. Genetically speaking, Cantonese are very close to Vietnamese, whereas Koreans are very close to Japanese.

您说得非常对!我还想补充一点,这两个领域不仅存在于语言上,也存在于基因上。从基因上讲,广东人非常接近越南人,而韩国人则非常接近日本人。


Cuongpham
9小时前
Chinese characters are virtually abandoned in the modern writing system of Vietnamese. However, the language is ripe with Chinese-derived and even self-coined Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary. Because Vietnamese people no longer have to learn Chinese characters in school, most of the time they can't tell homophones apart.

在现代越南语书写系统中,汉字几乎被抛弃了。然而,越南语中却充斥着大量源于汉语甚至自成体系的中越词汇。由于越南人不再需要在学校里学习汉字,所以大多数时候他们无法区分同音字。


DeanzaZZR
9小时前
Kind of barely touched upon but Classical Chinese was the lingua franca of East Asia for 2,000 years. This is how China, Korea, Japan (and Vietnam) communicated with one another. In fact when Commodore Mathew Perry showed up in Edo Bay in 1853 the documents provided to the Japanese were written in Classical Chinese by Chinese scholars and the Japanese responded in kind.

古典汉语是东亚两千年来的通用语言。中国、韩国、日本(和越南)就是用汉语相互交流的。事实上,当海军准将马修-佩里(Mathew Perry)于 1853 年出现在江户湾时,提供给日本人的文件都是由中国学者用古汉语书写的,日本人也做出了回应。


Fattiger
10小时前
Not that many Vietnamese know how to use Chinese characters. My mom is from the (pre-communist) south and she never learned how to use the. Maybe it is more common in the north where they have more influence from the Chinese and maybe it was taught more throughout the country after the war.

会使用汉字的越南人并不多。我妈妈来自(前共产主义时期)南方,她从未学过如何使用汉字。也许在受中国人影响较多的北方,这种情况更为普遍,也许战后全国各地都更多地教授汉字。


I understand Chinese characters used to be the writing system of Vietnam, but a new writing system was created during the French colonial era. That's why modern Vietnamese is just roman characters with a bunch of accents.

据我所知,汉字曾是越南的书写系统,但在法国殖民时期创建了新的书写系统。这就是为什么现代越南语只是罗马字加上一些口音。


AntTonyLOLKID
9小时前
Indeed.But I think they aren't teaching though, because I heard that you cannot get a government job if you are a recent descendent of a Chinese national. So despite Saigon having a large portion of Chinese immigrants/Chinese-Vietnamese (Viet Hoa), none of them work in any level of the government (even traffic police).

确实如此。但我认为他们没有教,因为我听说如果你是中国人的后代,你就不能在政府部门找到工作。因此,尽管西贡有大量的中国移民/华裔越南人(越华人),但他们都没有在任何级别的政府部门工作(即使是交通警察)。


Fattiger
9小时前
I didn't know that about government jobs. It's pretty weird since almost everyone in Vietnam has Chinese ancestry from one point in time or another. Vietnam, being so close, has always been heavily influenced by China.

我不知道政府工作是这样的。这很奇怪,因为在越南,几乎每个人都或多或少有中国血统。越南离中国这么近,一直深受中国的影响。


PandaBear
9小时前
My daughter took Japanese as her foreign language in college and one of her classmates had lived in Japan. This classmate said what was being taught would not enable them to converse in Japan even though they were learning all three writing systems. Since she took that course I always wondering if someone spoke Kanji if they could converse with someone on mainland China and now I know.

我女儿在大学选修了日语作为外语,她的一位同学曾在日本生活过。这位同学说,尽管他们学习了所有三种书写系统,但所学内容无法让他们在日本交谈。自从她上了那门课后,我一直在想,如果有人会说汉字,他们是否能与中国大陆的人交谈,现在我知道了。


Onionion
9小时前
Kanji is the written script (the so-called "Chinese characters) and does not change the way the word is spoken in Japanese.Another way to think of it is like writing down one alphabet, and then ask a German, an Icelandic, and an American to say it out loud. More often than not, you would get different sounds from the three languages using the same alphabet.

汉字是书面文字(即所谓的 "汉字"),不会改变日语的发音方式。另一种看法是,就像写下一个字母,然后让一个德国人、一个冰岛人和一个美国人大声说出来。使用相同的字母表,三种语言往往会发出不同的声音。


SantomPh
9小时前
no one speaks "Kanji". It is strictly a writing system. While some characters for signs like "entry" and Exit are the same, the two languages do not intersect much when used in full text.

没有人会说 "汉字"。严格来说,汉字是一种书写系统。虽然 "入 "和 "出 "等标志的某些字符是相同的,但在全文中使用时,两种语言的交集并不多。


When Sun Yat Sen (the father of modern China) lived in Japan while in exile from the Qing Dynasty he communicated mostly using single character prints when a translator wasn't available.Taught Japanese is very formal and the ordinary Japanese person speaks the local vernacular as well as age-typical vocabulary.

孙中山(现代中国之父)在清朝流亡期间居住在日本时,在没有翻译的情况下,他主要使用书写汉字进行交流。教日语是非常正式的,而普通日本人会说当地方言和时代词汇。


Shcheleonora
4小时前
A large percentage of words used in Korean and Japanese come from China, so both Korean and Japanese will naturally have overlaps in their uses of words from China.It might be helpful to think of Chinese as the Latin of Korea/Japan/Vietnam--just as Latin words can be found in many European languages that are not mutually intelligible, Chinese words are found in Korean and Japanese, even if they are not mutually intelligible.

韩语和日语中的大部分词汇都来自中国,因此韩语和日语在使用中国词汇时自然会有重叠。 把汉语看作韩国/日本/越南的拉丁语可能会有所帮助--就像拉丁语词可以在许多互不相通的欧洲语言中找到一样,汉语词也可以在韩语和日语中找到,即使它们互不相通。
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