[ 本帖最后由 卡卡西里 于 2024-3-20 19:18 编辑 ]
最近，以盐为动力的电动汽车在中国下线，成为头条新闻。这不仅是因为钠是我们最喜爱的餐桌调味品之一，还因为迄今为止，还没有一种电动汽车能够在没有锂的情况下运行，而锂是一种难以提取且相当昂贵的元素。那么，新型钠离子电池技术有哪些优缺点？市场有多大？为什么中国在钠离子电池技术方面遥遥领先？像 Northvolt 和 Altris 这样的欧洲公司又扮演着怎样的角色？
为什么中国在钠离子电池技术方面遥遥领先？
Polysporin
2天前
Sodium batteries advantage in the cold .Up to -30C. Without losing charge like lithium.
钠电池在寒冷环境中具有优势，温度可低至零下 30 摄氏度，不会像锂电池那样失去电量。
Aligenc
2天前
They can also be charged faster.
它们还可以更快地充电。
Toyotaprius
1天前
That doesn't even explain the tip of the ice berg. Better temp durability, flexibility, storage longevity and cycle life
这甚至不能解释冰山的一角，更好的温度耐久性、灵活性、存储寿命和循环寿命！
Alexsuttmiller
2天前
The future of sodium is in grid and home. The future of lithium is in higher performance transportation. There is plenty of room for both to develop at a robust pace over the next few decades.
钠的未来在于电网和家庭。锂的未来在更高性能的交通领域。未来几十年，两者都有很大的发展空间。
Maximusas
1天前
Yes it's likely going to be a mix of battery tech existing with each other, which is generally good.
是的，这很可能是一种电池技术的混合体，这种混合体一般都很好。
Toyotaprius
1天前
Sodium ion does have every place in transportation today and are better energy density performance of lithium ion less than a decade ago. From affordable EVs to mixed chemistry batteries.Don't underestimate
钠离子在当今的交通领域中确实占有一席之地，而且在不到十年前，钠离子的能量密度性能就优于锂离子。从经济型电动汽车到混合化学电池，不要低估！
Vrealzhou
1天前
Sodium batteries are good for electrical scooters which doesn’t require very long distances range.
钠电池适用于不需要很远续航里程的电动滑板车。
Djamonja
1天前
Yea, it doesn't have the energy density to replace Lithium Ion for most vehicles, it would require much more battery weight which is fine for the grid and the home, but not for transportation.
是的，它的能量密度不足以取代锂离子电池用于大多数车辆，它需要更大的电池重量，这对电网和家庭来说没问题，但对交通来说就不行了。
ZweiZwolf
19小时前
Advanced Sodium will eventually replace Lithium in all but a few high performance cases where weight and energy density are critical. The lower cost and greater safety makes this inevitable, just as NiMH replaced Ni-Cad and was then replaced by Li-ion batteries.
除少数对重量和能量密度要求较高的高性能情况外，先进钠最终将取代锂。正如镍氢取代镍镉，然后被锂离子电池取代一样，更低的成本和更高的安全性使这一趋势不可避免。
Justcastro
19小时前
The vast majority of vehicles travel <50 km daily, so sodium batteries would be fine for that.Even in car-centric America, the typical commute + errands is well under <100 km.A car with 200 km range is enough for multiple days, for plenty of margin if you forget to charge.Add proper charging infrastructure, and it's no more of a concern than a petrol ar.
绝大多数车辆的日行驶里程都小于 50 公里，因此钠电池在这方面没有问题。即使在以汽车为中心的美国，一般的通勤+差事也远低于 100 公里。 一辆续航里程为 200 公里的汽车足够使用多日，即使忘记充电也有足够的余量。再加上适当的充电基础设施，就不会比汽油车更令人担忧了。
Cetocoquinto
2天前（修改过）
The big problem with this is that europe is still dreaming while china is now selling lifepo4 batteries on people who DIY here in south east asia..especially on solar storage applications. Dont know how europe could catch.
这其中最大的问题是，欧洲还在做梦，而中国现在正在向东南亚的 DIY 人士销售 lifepo4 电池，尤其是在太阳能储能应用方面。不知道欧洲如何能赶上。
Moocorp
2天前
My Tesla built in Berlin has Lithium Iron Phosphate, battery is from China though.
我在柏林制造的特斯拉采用磷酸铁锂电池，但电池来自中国。
Maximusas
1天前
It's because Europe functions as a free market economy, China directs investiments as it sees fit. Until recently anyway. Europe is now pushing the markets towards renewable technology and things like semiconductors. There are benefits of having an authoritarian government that knows well where to invest, such as the case of China and battery tech, although that's not always the case, their real estate market did collapse in the end.
这是因为欧洲奉行自由市场经济，而中国则按照自己的意愿进行投资。直到最近。欧洲现在正推动市场转向可再生能源技术和半导体等领域。专制政府也有好处，他们很清楚投资方向，比如中国和电池技术，但事实并非总是如此，中国的房地产市场最后确实崩盘了。
Weifengmao
1天前
eu isn't a free market. Your farmers are heavily subsidized just like other countries subsidize sectors they deem important. So is the US
欧盟不是自由市场。你们的农民得到了大量补贴，就像其他国家补贴他们认为重要的部门一样，美国也是如此！
Deezeed
1天前
This is complete nonsense. Most of the technology you use were the result of military projects directed by the government. It's not that China is doing anything different. Private enterprise is limited in what it can do and is profit driven which doesn't always result in the best outcomes or technologies.
这完全是胡说八道，你们使用的大多数技术都是政府指导的军事项目的成果，中国所做的并没有什么不同。私营企业所能做的有限，而且受利益驱动，并不总能产生最好的结果或技术。
Martinmey
1天前
China may be ahead a few years, but a big mature economy in the West will push and incentivize the innovation in Europe and America. And they will pass China in a short time.
中国可能会领先几年，但西方成熟的大经济体将推动和激励欧美的创新。它们将在短时间内超越中国。
Tahaismetsevg
1天前
EU is one of the most regulated markets on Earth. You have HUGE taxes on yop of that. China is more free compared to EU.
欧盟是地球上监管最严格的市场之一。除此之外，还有巨额税收。与欧盟相比，中国更加自由。
ZweiZwolf
19小时前
China is run by extremely competent people who make and execute against Five Year Plans;Chinese officials tend to be engineers rather than lawyers, and high level officials are promoted on merit rather than base popularity.
中国的管理者都是非常能干的人，他们制定并执行五年计划；中国的官员往往是工程师而不是律师，高级官员的晋升靠的是能力而不是声望。
The Chinese real estate market bubble is being deflated, rather than collapsing like we've seen in America every few decades.We'll likely see a lot of basic real estate become nationalized under the Chinese government to stabilize prices and increase affordability, more similar to how Singapore does things.
中国房地产市场的泡沫正在瘪下去，而不是像我们在美国看到的那样，每隔几十年就会崩溃一次。 我们很可能会看到中国政府将大量基础房地产国有化，以稳定价格，提高可负担性，这与新加坡的做法更为相似。
Almdrs
1天前
China is ahead in LFP, lithum ion and now in sodium batteries. I think I can see a pattern.
中国在锂离子电池、锂离子电池和钠离子电池方面都处于领先地位，我想我能看出其中的规律。
HermanWillems
1天前
All that technology is invented in the West though. We just have a difficult environment to produce products cheap because of the many rules we have in the west. China has less rules, this you also see at all the nature being destroyed and rivers being extremely polluted. So there is no level playing field now.
不过，所有这些技术都是西方发明的。只是由于西方有很多规则，我们很难在这样的环境中生产廉价产品。中国的规则较少，这一点你也可以从大自然被破坏、河流被严重污染中看出来。因此，现在没有公平的竞争环境。
Luismvg
1天前
they have less rules but my experience in working in China mean something is that the more they develop as a country the more they can afford to put more environmental rulea. That's why nowadays theor skies looks blue for the most part instead of grey like 10 years ago
他们的规定较少，但我在中国工作的经验告诉我，国家越发展，他们就越有能力制定更多的环保规定。这就是为什么如今中国的天空大多是蓝色的，而不是像 10 年前那样灰蒙蒙的。
Mohdaamir
15小时前
They all were invented in the USA. But have you seen the no. of patents filed by each country? China takes 1st spot by a large margin and the highest number of patents filed by a single company is by Huawei. To say that they're not inventing anything is a bad take, and they're catching up rapidly. I bet that they would surpass the west on certain sectors and achieve parity on most others within the decade.
当然，它们都是美国发明的。但你看过各国申请专利的数量吗？中国以巨大优势占据第一位，而单个公司申请专利数量最多的是华为。如果说中国没有发明，那就大错特错了。我敢打赌，十年内，他们将在某些领域超越西方，并在其他大多数领域实现平起平坐。
Sepilokfui
2天前
the most crucial point in the whole reporting is "but we can not get any figures..." that shows how good your reporting
整篇报道中最关键的一点是 "但我们无法获得任何数据......"，这说明您的报道多么出色！
Tangenquattro
1天前
What are you suggesting? Put force on the Chinese government or the manufacturer, to give them access to information on how many cars with sodium batteries are out there? There is no such thing as free information, certainly when it comes to the Chinese
你想说什么？对中国政府或制造商施加压力，让他们了解市场上有多少装有钠电池的汽车？没有免费的信息，对中国人来说更是如此。
Madcow
2天前
I put together a power tool battery with sodium ion cells.The lower voltage per cell makes them not drop-in replacements.They can't discharge as fast as lithium ion, so high current applications (draining a battery in 30 min. or less) are a bad fit.
我用钠离子电池组装了一个电动工具电池，由于每节电池的电压较低，因此不能直接替换。钠离子电池的放电速度不如锂离子电池快，因此不适合大电流应用（30 分钟或更短时间内耗尽电池）。
Electric cars aren't great: sure you expect the battery to last multiple hours of driving, but normal accelerations are short-term high current uses.Home energy, where a large battery is supposed to slowly drain over 24 hours or so, would be my choice for this chemistry.
电动汽车就不太适合：你当然希望电池能持续多小时的驾驶，但正常的加速是短期的大电流应用。家庭能源方面，大型电池应该在 24 小时左右慢慢耗尽电量，因此我选择这种化学物质。
Ryan-ff2db
2天前
This is why they will have limited use in these fields.CATL predicts that sodium-ion will only reach 18 percent of the passenger EV market.Mostly in small city cars, shuttles, that sort of thing.I can't imagine much penetration in the power tool market if any.It's stationary storage like grid scale BESS systems and home storage where these batteries will shine.
这就是它们在这些领域用途有限的原因。宁德时代预测，钠离子电池在乘用电动汽车市场的份额将仅为 18%。主要用于小型城市汽车、班车等。我无法想象电动工具市场会有多大的渗透率。在固定存储领域，如电网规模的 BESS 系统和家庭存储，这些电池将大放异彩。
ZweiZwolf
19小时前
Electric cars are fine - nobody needs to accelerate 0-100 km/h in 3 seconds.We'll see sodium dominate everything except niche use.
电动汽车没问题--没有人需要在 3 秒内完成 0-100 公里/小时的加速。除了小众用途之外，我们将看到钠在所有领域占据主导地位。
Samdam
2天前
In recent times i see DW news is so obsessed with china somebody is really getting jealous
近来，我看到德国新闻对中国如此痴迷，有人真的开始嫉妒了！
Mingouczjcz
1天前（修改过）
When losing the competitions, they either try to nastily smear or play tricks against its counterparts. When winning the competitions, they pose as superior race.
比赛失利时，他们要么诋毁对手，要么玩弄对手。比赛获胜时，则摆出高人一等的姿态。
Masterchinese
1天前
Sodium probably makes more sense for large storage, like on power grids, due to it's heavier weight and larger volume. The ability to recharge more times without losing capacity is also a plus for this type of application. Over time, the tech will improve and then make it into smaller devices.
由于钠的重量更重、体积更大，因此对于电网等大型存储设备来说，钠可能更有意义。钠能在不损失容量的情况下进行更多次充电，这也是这类应用的一个优势。随着时间的推移，这种技术会不断改进，然后应用到更小的设备中。
Netroy
1天前
The reporter is conflating a lot between "Sodium" and "Salt", that's like using "Water" and "Hydrogen" interchangeably.Besides that, thanks for reporting on this. We really need a global push to build much bigger grid-storage, and Sodium-ion can definitely help quite a lot.
记者把 "钠"和 "盐"混为一谈，就像把 "水"和 "氢"混用一样。除此之外，感谢您的报道。我们确实需要在全球范围内推动建设更大规模的电网储能系统，而钠离子肯定能帮上大忙。
Theworddoner
2天前
Another advantage that sodium batteries have over lithium batteries is that they’re more Weather resistant. While they may have overall less charge than lithium, they actually hold their charge in cold weather and are less volatile in warm weathers. This is incredibly important for colder countries as well as incredibly warm countries. Lithium loses a third of its charge in colder temperatures and is more fire prone than salt batteries.
与锂电池相比，钠电池的另一个优势是耐候性更强。虽然钠电池的总电量可能低于锂电池，但它们在寒冷天气中仍能保持电量，而在温暖天气中则不易挥发。这对于寒冷的国家和温暖的国家都非常重要。锂电池在低温下会损失三分之一的电量，而且比盐类电池更容易起火。
Ceridangau
1天前
yep and they charge and discharge twice a fast i think. Imagine charging your car in 5 mins.
是的，它们的充电和放电速度是我想的两倍，想象一下在 5 分钟内为汽车充电的情景吧。
Vrealzhou
1天前
Sodium batteries are already mass replacing the lead acid batteries in two wheels vehicles that doesn’t need extreme performance and mostly used in the cities. There are already DIY shops can replace the old lead acid batteries to sodium batteries on your old electric scooters. Those scooters were designed for using lead acid batteries which has less energy density compared to sodium batteries so they have enough room to install. And the new batteries can provide longer life, can be discharged to 0%, and perform better in the cold weather.
钠电池已经在大量取代铅酸电池，用于不需要极高性能的两轮汽车，而且大多在城市中使用。已经有 DIY 商店可以将旧电动自行车上的旧铅酸电池更换为钠电池。这些滑板车在设计时使用的是铅酸电池，与钠电池相比，铅酸电池的能量密度较低，因此它们有足够的安装空间。而且新电池的寿命更长，可以放电到 0%，在寒冷的天气里性能更好。
Polyteky
11小时前
where can we buy those or is it only available in China ?
我们在哪里可以买到，还是只有在中国才能买到?
vrealzhou
8小时前（修改过）
only in China right now. I don’t think it will be possible in EU because the law requires bike licenses to ride those e-bikes but in China it doesn’t required.
现在只在中国销售。我认为这在欧盟是不可能的，因为法律规定骑电动自行车需要有自行车驾照，但在中国不需要。
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