西班牙､挪威和爱尔兰与其他约140个国家一起正式承认巴勒斯坦建国｡但他们的承认对巴勒斯坦人的日常生活究竟意味着什么?
巴勒斯坦建国面临的最大挑战是什么?
Ehrgeiz
4天前
As a spoiled european person. I completely agree. The biggest challenge to palestinian statehood is that double standard. I'm sick and tired of having to condemn the 7th of october, it didn't happen in a goddamn vacuum.
作为一个被宠坏的欧洲人,我完全同意,巴勒斯坦建国面临的最大挑战就是双重标准｡我已经厌倦了谴责 10 月 7 日的事件,它不是凭空发生的｡
Wanwanmahm
4天前
exactly. It's clearly so unfair. Clearly apartheid, and the world failed to do anything for 75 years.
正是如此,这显然太不公平了｡显然是种族隔离,而世界在 75 年里什么都没做｡
Rollingdownfalling
4天前
"Self-determination" For palestinians was led by yasser — brutally poisoned
巴勒斯坦的 “自决”是由亚萨尔·阿拉法特领导的--他被残忍地毒死了!
Benluigi
4天前
Israel is in no position to critise anyone.
以色列没有资格批评任何人｡
Dcforeve
2天前
middle east was peaceful until israel's arrival!
以色列到来之前,中东一直很和平!
Bellezablocki
2天前
no it was always violent. You have to read history.
不,它总是充满暴力,你得读读历史｡
Yavorkaraneshev
4天前
The irony of spain recognizing palestine, but whenever the people of catalonia demand independence, they brutally suppress them.
西班牙承认巴勒斯坦,但每当加泰罗尼亚人民要求独立时,他们就会残酷镇压,这真是讽刺｡
Gediceman
4天前
Spain avoided recognizing kosovo on these grounds. And i concur on your point with spain. As much as i despise american reaction to the current war.
西班牙就是以这些理由避免承认科索沃的,我同意你关于西班牙的观点｡就像我鄙视美国对当前战争的反应一样｡
Rename
4天前
catalans are much richer than average spanish citizens and eu citizens. '67 palians are stateless ref°g°s living in besieged col°nial gh°°tos. I don't approve of the spanish constitution's ban on secession or central government enforcement thereof, but to equate the situations is absurd.
加泰罗尼亚人比普通西班牙公民和欧盟公民富有得多｡1967年的巴勒斯坦人是无国籍的难民,生活在被围困的殖民地｡我不赞成西班牙宪法禁止分裂,也不赞成中央政府强制执行,但把两种情况等同起来是荒谬的｡
They're pretty much about opposite ends of the hierarchy of needs. Catalan independence is the most first world problems independence struggle of all time, it's like if california wanted to secede (which i think they're constitutionally entitled to, but then again, last time america had a civil war over that).
加泰罗尼亚独立是有史以来最有第一世界问题的独立斗争,就好像加利福尼亚想要分离一样(我认为宪法赋予了他们分离的权利,但话又说回来,上一次美国就因为这个问题发生了内战)｡
Bachhongtran
4天前
kosovo at least wanted a state and they had their own state. Palestine, did they really want their own state?
科索沃至少想要一个国家,他们有了自己的国家｡巴勒斯坦,他们真的想要自己的国家吗?
Bluecoffee
4天前
Un/international law recognizes the right of every "People" To "Self determination." In practice this is full of vagueness and contradictions. Who the heck qualifies as a "People"? Jurists have held that ethnic or distinct groups within a "People" Do not have the right to self determination.
联合国/国际法承认每个 “人民”都有 “自决权”｡在实践中,这充满了模糊和矛盾｡到底谁有资格成为 “人民”?法学家认为,“人民”中的种族或独特群体没有自决权｡
If swedes are a "People," Do they have a right to not become minorities in their own country? Apparently not. Are catalans a distinct "People" From the spanish people? Arguably yes but you can also see them as an ethnic group within the spanish people and therefore have no right to self determination.In a nutshell, it's a mess.
如果瑞典人是一个“民族”,他们有权利不成为自己国家的少数民族吗?显然不是｡加泰罗尼亚人和西班牙人是不同的“民族”吗?可以说是的,但你也可以把他们看作是西班牙人民中的一个民族,因此没有自决的权利｡简而言之,就是一团糟｡
Kaichongjee
4天前
Catalan region is super rich, can't let them go.
加泰罗尼亚地区超级有钱,不能让他们走｡
Quipac
4天前
They have always used the independence threat to have economic gains against other spanish regions. That has worked like a charm. That's why there hasn't been any riots for independence for years.
他们总是利用独立威胁来获得经济收益,从而打击其他西班牙地区｡这一招非常奏效,这就是为什么多年来都没有发生过要求独立的骚乱｡
Comparing that to the palestinian appartheid and genocide it's 'genius'. The unique spanish region which has a real claim for independence is navarre, which was a former kingdom, a very long time ago. Catalonia and the basque country were never separate kingdoms. They were always part of castille, aragon or both.
与巴勒斯坦的种族隔离和种族灭绝相比,这简直就是'天才'｡西班牙唯一一个真正要求独立的地区是纳瓦拉,它在很久以前曾是一个王国｡加泰罗尼亚和巴斯克从来都不是独立王国｡它们一直是卡斯蒂利亚､阿拉贡或两者的一部分｡
Matthewchan
4天前
Palestine is a special case because the right of statehood of israel and palestine is premised on a un resolution and at least at some point, the government of israel recognise the state of palestine
巴勒斯坦是个特例,因为以色列和巴勒斯坦的建国权是以联合国决议为前提的,至少在某些时候,以色列政府承认巴勒斯坦国｡
Nevarran
4天前
Absurd comparison. Catalonia is part of spain, the catalan people have equal rights with all other spaniards. They can work, they can travel, they can do business, they can vote, they can become politicians...
荒谬的比较｡加泰罗尼亚是西班牙的一部分,加泰罗尼亚人享有与所有其他西班牙人平等的权利｡他们可以工作,可以旅行,可以做生意,可以投票,可以成为政治家......
Monicaaustin
2天前
In 1967, jordan was in control of judea and samaria, egypt of gaza yet there still was no "Palestinian" State .
1967 年,约旦控制了朱迪亚和撒马利亚,埃及控制了加沙,但仍然没有 “巴勒斯坦”国｡
Dribrom
4天前
Sweden for an example recognized palestine in 2014 but that didn't change anything. The israeli government has never cared what anyone else say or think. The entire world could recognize palestine and israel would still not ben their knee.
例如,瑞典在 2014 年承认了巴勒斯坦,但这并没有改变什么｡以色列政府从来不在乎别人怎么说､怎么想｡全世界都可以承认巴勒斯坦,以色列仍然不会屈膝｡
Sohartovlog
2天前
Without usa israel is nothing..
没有美国,以色列什么都不是!
Bingopaletot
4天前
Let's see if palestine recognises israel.
让我们看看巴勒斯坦是否承认以色列!
Codelife
4天前
Not with hamas in power they won't.
在哈马斯掌权的情况下,他们不会承认的｡
Plebius
3天前
The plo has, it was in control of the west bank and gazza. The plo recognizes the right of the state of israel to exist in peace and security. The plo accepts united nations security council resolutions 242 and 338. This was part of the oslo peace accords.
巴解组织已经控制了约旦河西岸和加沙地带｡巴解组织承认以色列国在和平与安全中生存的权利｡巴解组织接受联合国安理会第242号和第338号决议｡这是奥斯陆和平协议的一部分｡
Israel funded the group it is currently fighting to get them into power, to split the palestinians and thus making that extremely unlikely. So your statement is not only factually incorrect, it warps the historical facts.
以色列资助了目前正在与之交战的组织,目的是让他们上台,分裂巴勒斯坦,从而使这种可能性变得微乎其微｡因此,你的说法不仅与事实不符,而且歪曲了历史事实｡
Bingopaletot
3天前
the plo is not palestine. More than one palestinian would contradict that view. It is you who is warping the facts to suit its narrative. Moreover, the oslo accords stipulate that "Neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the west bank and the gaza strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations". So, declaring statehood before the end of such negotiations is a breach of the oslo accords, innit?
巴解组织不是巴勒斯坦｡不止一个巴勒斯坦人会反驳这一观点｡是你歪曲事实来迎合它的叙述｡此外,《奥斯陆协定》规定,“在永久地位谈判取得结果之前,任何一方都不得发起或采取任何将改变西岸和加沙地带地位的步骤”｡所以,在这样的谈判结束之前宣布独立是违反奥斯陆协议的,对吗?
Oldsenpai
4天前
As i have stated before, only israel and palestine can end this war. No one else can end the war for them nor will any agreement brokered by someone else will ever hold up. Even if palestine becomes its own state, war will only continue until their differences are resolved.
正如我之前所说,只有以色列和巴勒斯坦才能结束这场战争｡其他人无法替他们结束战争,其他人撮合的任何协议也不会成立｡即使巴勒斯坦自立为国,战争也只会继续下去,直到他们的分歧得到解决｡
Bothered
4天前(修改过)
I am not against recognition of palestine. But doesn't telling a country to stop the operation while rockets are constantly being fired at it mean that i don't recognize your right to self-defense? You may find israeli operations harsh, but can you explain what the point is if international law is binding on only one party? Suppose israel abandons the operation, do you think hamas will stop firing rockets? Ask yourself this honestly.
我不反对承认巴勒斯坦｡但是,在一个国家不断遭到火箭弹袭击的情况下,却要求它停止行动,这难道不意味着我不承认你们的自卫权吗?您可能认为以色列的行动很严厉,但您能否解释一下,如果国际法只对一方有约束力,那又有什么意义呢?假设以色列放弃行动,你认为哈马斯会停止发射火箭吗?请扪心自问｡
Sachinshant
4天前
Yes they would not. Tell me a honest answer from your end .Consider a 8 year old palestine boy who lost his parents, sibling , house basically who has no idea what is been happening is offered food, shelter & opportunity to avenge. What would that kid do ?
是的,他们不会,请你诚实地回答我｡想想一个 8 岁的巴勒斯坦男孩,他失去了父母､兄弟姐妹和房子,基本上不知道发生了什么,但有人给他提供食物､住所和报仇的机会｡这个孩子会怎么做?
We will let politicians do the condemning hamas & israel should follow international law speech . Let’s talk something at human level solution.Justice brings peace. Justice which gives peace to people of israel & palestine. Doesn’t matter what other countries need . The day those two countries recognise each other as a state , the war ends for ever.
我们让政客们去谴责哈马斯和以色列应该遵守国际法的言论吧｡让我们谈谈人类层面的解决方案｡正义给以色列和巴勒斯坦人民带来和平｡其他国家需要什么并不重要｡这两个国家相互承认为一个国家的那一天,战争就永远结束了｡
Voltman
3天前
Agreed... Both the isrealis and the palestinians have horrible governments right now. Hamas isn't gonna let go of power rather we get a 2 state solution,isreal stops firing or not...And netanyahu at this point isn't any better he's not gonna let go of power either. And correct me if i'm wrong but didn't he make a change to isreals constitution or laws to keep himself in charge?
同意... 以色列和巴勒斯坦的政府现在都很糟糕｡哈马斯不会放弃权力,除非我们达成两国解决方案,无论以色列是否停止开火...在这一点上,内塔尼亚胡也好不到哪里去,他也不会放手权力｡如果我说错了,请纠正我,难道他没有修改以色列的宪法或法律来让自己继续掌权吗?
Pomperidus
3天前
It is obvious that the palestinian people deserve to have a state, and that this is long overdue. It is also understandable that many countries are reluctant to recognize a palestinian state now and would rather wait for hamas to be removed and a peace agreement to be signed,
显然,巴勒斯坦人民理应建国,而且早就应该建国了｡同样可以理解的是,许多国家现在不愿意承认巴勒斯坦国,而宁愿等待哈马斯被清除和和平协议签署｡
As they do not want to reward the attacks 7th of october (which would set a dangerous precedent) or give legitimity to a state that is partly governed by a terrorist group. Achieving peace and protection of civilians should be an international priority right now.
因为他们不想奖励 10 月 7 日的袭击(这将开创一个危险的先例),也不想让一个部分由恐怖组织统治的国家合法化｡实现和平和保护平民应该是当前国际社会的首要任务｡
Wclwkmw
4天前(修改过)
Is there really any solution beside palestine and israel both exist as two independent separate states? Obviously oppression didn't work, we seen that for 75 years, so a change is needed.
除了巴勒斯坦和以色列作为两个独立的单独国家存在之外,真的还有其他解决办法吗?很明显,压迫是行不通的,75 年来我们都看到了这一点,所以需要改变｡
Ehrgeiz
4天前
A solution would be to hold israel accountable for human rights violations and make it have consequences. But because germany did a certain thing 80 years ago, nobody is willing to go there, for germany for obvious reasons. For every other western country it's just a blatant double standard.
解决办法是追究以色列侵犯人权的责任,让它承担后果｡但因为德国在 80 年前做了某件事,所以没有人愿意去那里,德国的原因显而易见｡对其他西方国家来说,这只是公然的双重标准｡
Frankozrin
2天前
Israel retreated from gaza in 2005, the goal was to have a two state solution, but as soon as israel left gaza, they threw rockets at israel. That's why israel keeps occupying the west bank. If palestinians finally stopped constantly trying to erase israel, then israel would eventually leave the west bank too. But with october 7th, palestinians again ruined it.
以色列于 2005 年从加沙撤退,当时的目标是实现两国解决方案,但以色列一离开加沙,他们就向以色列投掷火箭弹｡这就是以色列一直占领约旦河西岸的原因｡如果巴勒斯坦人最终不再不断试图消灭以色列,那么以色列最终也会离开约旦河西岸｡但随着 10 月 7 日的到来,巴勒斯坦人再次毁了这一切｡
Khunashvil
2天前(修改过)
hahaha thats a good one. They retreated but they con troi the borders (all of them), the food, the water, the electricity, the aid, the gas, the oil, the military, the police, the currency, the banks, the media, the press, the law, the courts, the settlements, the goods, the workforce, the infrastructure budget, the development budget, and i could go on. And everyone is shocked oct 7 happened hahaha
哈哈,说得好｡他们撤退了,但他们控制了边界(所有边界)､食品､水､电､援助､天然气､石油､军队､警察､货币､银行､媒体､新闻､法律､法院､定居点､货物､劳动力､基础设施预算､发展预算,我还可以继续说下去｡每个人都对10 月 7 的发生感到震惊,哈哈哈~~ |
