印度尼西亚为何反击欧盟规则?

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卡卡西里 2024-6-2 00:49:05 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
欧盟禁止在其公司供应链中砍伐森林的法律令国外贸易伙伴感到沮丧。就拿印度尼西亚来说,该国称该法律损害了其小农户的利益。这场争论发生在印尼与欧盟正在商讨自由贸易协定之际,欧盟需要印尼提供的矿产用于生产电池和电脑芯片。那么,欧盟是要在环保原则上让步,还是要危及与印尼的关系,并有可能损害重要产业?

印度尼西亚为何反击欧盟规则?

印度尼西亚为何反击欧盟规则?

Jorsm.
6小时前
If the eu want to make import/export laws based on environmental grounds, than indonesia or any other party has very little to say about that. If the eu later can no longer get the goods they need, because no trade partner can meet the requirements, they will certainly revise them.

如果欧盟想以环境为由制定进出口法律,那么印尼或任何其他国家对此都无话可说。如果欧盟后来因为没有贸易伙伴能满足要求而无法再获得他们需要的商品,他们肯定会修改这些法律。


Msdgroup
5小时前
when european and americans concern about environment, i cannot stop lol. Thanks to petrodollar, there are 1.4 billion cars nowadays compared 200 million in 1970 when petrodollar was signed in. If each ice car passenger produce 192 gram co2 and every car has 2 passenger, thus a day there will be 2x192x1.4 billion = 537 billion gram of co2 that people breath in. That's only cars. To increase the sale in oil, usa and europeans sell cheap cars, commercial jets, trains, plastics etc.Now europeans are talking about environment. What a joke!

当欧洲和美国人关注环境问题时,我忍不住笑了。多亏了石油美元,如今汽车保有量已达 14 亿辆,而 1970 年石油美元签署时只有 2 亿辆。如果每辆内燃机车的乘客产生 192 克二氧化碳,而每辆车有 2 名乘客,那么一天就有 2x192x14 亿 = 537 亿克二氧化碳被人们吸入,这还只是汽车。为了增加石油销售量,美国和欧洲出售廉价汽车、商用飞机、火车、塑料制品等。现在欧洲人却在谈论环境问题。真是个笑话!


Tezarmx
4小时前(修改过)
the real joke is always referring to the past when people are trying to change. There is a vast difference in thinking between generations. I personally don't even own a car, even though i could get one. Calling out people on what previous generations accomplished serves pretty much nothing. Though i agree that the eu should stop getting itself into diplomatic "Hot water" By commenting on domestic issues of non-eu countries, which products the eu does and does not allow to be brought in is the eu's issue.

真正的笑话是,当人们试图改变时,总是提到过去。代与代之间的思想差异巨大。我个人甚至没有汽车,尽管我可以买一辆。拿上一代人的成就说事几乎毫无意义。虽然我同意欧盟应该停止通过评论非欧盟国家的国内问题来让自己陷入外交 “水深火热 ”之中,但欧盟允许或不允许引进哪些产品是欧盟自己的问题。


Spazzymcge
4小时前
I can't listen to this guy. It's nothing but excuses. He obviously has an agenda.

我听不下去了,他只会找借口,他显然是有目的的。


Ricardoxavier
5小时前
Palm oil cannot grow in european weather. The most healthy oil are olive oil, and we produce it. Its the giant corporations that use tropical palm oil, instead olive oil, because its cheaper. Palm oil are used in poison precessed foods.

棕榈油无法在欧洲的气候条件下生长。最健康的油是橄榄油,我们也生产橄榄油。巨头公司使用热带棕榈油代替橄榄油,因为它更便宜。棕榈油被用于制作有毒食品。


Because of that, more and more people know that only olive oil are helthy, but the tree grows slow, so olive oil are becoming more expensive year after year. More demand over limited production. Neither too hot, neither too cold, neither too wet, neither too dry.

正因为如此,越来越多的人知道只有橄榄油才是健康的,但橄榄树生长缓慢,因此橄榄油的价格逐年上涨。更多的需求超过了有限的产量。既不能太热,也不能太冷,既不能太湿,也不能太干。


Hikashia.
5小时前
The petrodollar is not the cause of the spread of cars, technology and increasing global wealth is. The us would be interested to know that cars are cheap elsewhere as cars jn the us are very expensive due to the large number of regulations placed on them. Still, in the interview it was stated that indonesia has a free relationship with the us.

石油美元不是汽车普及的原因,技术和全球财富的增长才是。美国人可能有兴趣知道,其他地方的汽车很便宜,而美国的汽车由于受到大量法规的限制而非常昂贵。尽管如此,他表示印尼与美国的关系是自由的。


That is often the case with the us, it will sacrifice the perfect for the reasonable. And it's absolutely true that these regulations hurt small farmers in both indonesia and in places like the us and the regulations tend to be influenced by powerful interests. Very much enjoyed the interview. The eu often cuts off its nose to spite its face. No place is perfect.

美国往往就是这样,为了合理而牺牲完美。这些规定伤害了印尼和美国等地的小农户,而且这些规定往往受到强大利益集团的影响,这绝对是事实。非常喜欢这次采访。欧盟经常损人利己,没有一个地方是完美的。


Hikashia
4小时前
and ofc, palm oil can't be grown in european weather. Which is what i said, the anti-deforestation law is more about propping local european vegetable oil industry than it is about environment, which is what we call out as hypocrisy.

当然,棕榈油不能在欧洲的气候条件下生长。这就是我所说的,反森林砍伐法与其说是为了保护环境,不如说是为了支持当地的欧洲植物油产业,这就是我们所说的虚伪。


Following last paragraph, if you want to boost your own economy at the cost of our own, then we don't mind taking advantage of our own industry to boost ourselves at the cost of your concern.

接着上一段,如果你们想以牺牲我们的经济为代价来促进你们自己的经济,那么我们也不介意以牺牲你们的利益为代价,利用我们自己的产业来促进我们自己的经济。


Again to emphasize, it's not like we ban nickel export for ban own sake, we ban it to develop our own local industry more sustainably... Just like the eu? (banning palm oil to prop up local vegetable oil industry)

再次强调,我们并不是为了禁止镍出口而禁止镍出口,我们禁止镍出口是为了更可持续地发展我们自己的本地产业...... 就像欧盟一样?(禁止使用棕榈油以支持本地植物油工业)


Farhanflorentinus
4小时前
Prosperity is not only for european.

繁荣不仅仅属于欧洲。


Msdgroup
3小时前
europe population is only 1 billion but to much headache dealing with them. So in geopolitics like nowadays, what are the benefits for trading with the west? Usd? We don't need usd.

欧洲人口只有 10 亿,但与他们打交道却让人头疼。那么,在如今这样的地缘政治中,与西方进行贸易有什么好处呢?美元?我们不需要美元。


Ricardoxavie
2小时前
prosperity are for the winners of the high tech race. You buy what you need and cant produce, creating wealth to who sell you that goods.

繁荣是高科技竞赛获胜者的事。你购买你需要但无法生产的东西,为卖给你这些商品的人创造财富。


China are rising, but dont control the most high tech secrets. If ww3 breaks out, china industry will collapse because they need what they cant produce, in order to produce the way they had been producing in the last decades.

中国正在崛起,但并不掌握高科技机密。如果第三次世界大战爆发,中国的工业就会崩溃,因为他们需要自己无法生产的东西,以生产他们过去几十年一直生产的方式。


Kishfoo
8小时前
Every country wants to be as self-reliant as possible and have bigger exports than imports. Farming is a huge issue as growing populations will need more food, which will either result in more foreign reliance or destroy the environment.

每个国家都希望尽可能自力更生,出口大于进口。农业是一个巨大的问题,因为不断增长的人口需要更多的粮食,这要么会导致更多的对外依赖,要么会破坏环境。


The three most essential commodities that could be used to flex trade demands are water, food, and energy for extremely cold environments. But, throttling a population from growing reduces economic output. Europe has expanses of farmlands and meadows, plenty of water, and an overflow of clean energy. U.s. Exports the most food.

可以用来满足贸易需求的三种最基本的商品是水、食物和极寒环境下的能源。但是,抑制人口增长会减少经济产出。欧洲拥有广袤的农田和草地、充足的水源和满溢的清洁能源。美国出口的粮食最多。


Bluecedar
47分钟前
And indonesia is within it's rights to follow australia 's lead and walk away from a one sided hypocritical agreement that brings them no real benefit. Indonesia has done well to have lowered corruption and increased the rule of law as well as they have the last thirty years. Not every economy can be micromanaged with the degree of bureaucracy present in the eu, and farmers of other economies are greatful for that  chump no want some chump no get some.

印尼有权效仿澳大利亚的做法,退出这个没有给他们带来任何实际利益的单方面虚伪协议。过去三十年来,印尼在减少腐败、加强法治方面做得很好。并不是每个经济体都能像欧盟那样以官僚主义的方式进行微观管理,而其他经济体的农民则为此感到庆幸。


Ornachia
8小时前(修改过)
Eu : We don't want your palm oil indonesia, because it's bad for environment!!
Same eu : We still want you to export raw nickel to us though, if not we'll bring this to wto  .....

欧盟:我们不想要你们印尼的棕榈油,因为它对环境有害!
同样的欧盟:我们仍然希望你们向我们出口未加工的镍,如果不这样做,我们将向世界贸易组织(WTO).....


Actorneno
8小时前
Always double standards colonization

殖民者总是双重标准!


Blodhelm
8小时前
He straight up complained that the eu doesn't import their nickel and then called brussels racist for not buying their forest-devastating products.

他直截了当地抱怨欧盟不进口他们的镍,然后说布鲁塞尔是种族主义者,不买他们破坏森林的产品。


Avorfm
6小时前
It is the eu that sues indonesia for not exporting its nickel ore, but only semi and fully processed nickel products. That puts the aluminium industry in europe in difficulty. Indonesia in turn says, please come to indonesia and produce your aluminium in indonesia. That is too much to ask.

是欧盟起诉印尼不出口镍矿石,只出口半成品和全加工镍产品。这使欧洲的铝工业陷入困境。印尼反过来说,请到印尼来,在印尼生产你们的铝。这个要求太过分了。


Ok, then stay home and keep on whining, we will produce the ev batteries and the aluminium ourselves for good measure. Europe is becoming more and more obsolete in the asia pacific area in terms of trade and politics. It used to be different........that was when they still had their subjugated colonies.

好吧,那就待在家里继续发牢骚吧,我们将自己生产电动汽车电池和铝,以示友好。欧洲在亚太地区的贸易和政治方面正变得越来越过时。以前是不一样的........那是他们还拥有被征服的殖民地的时候。


Artman
5小时前
Same as us suing india at wto for providing subsidies to indian farmers while us has the biggest subsidies to its farmers.

就像美国在世界贸易组织起诉印度向印度农民提供补贴,而美国却向其农民提供最大的补贴一样。


Whartanto
7小时前
Eu produces 2.5 gigaton of co2 per year. Indonesia produces 0.5 gigaton per year. Eu is addicted to russian oil because they need it for heating during winter. Indonesia does not have winters and consume per capita much smaller amount of energy than any developed nation and thus produce much smaller carbon footprint. But of course, eu is the good guys in the fight against climate change...

欧盟每年排放25亿吨二氧化碳,印度尼西亚每年生产5亿吨。欧盟对俄罗斯的石油上瘾,因为他们需要它在冬天取暖。印度尼西亚没有冬天,人均能源消耗量比任何发达国家都要小得多,因此产生的碳足迹要小得多。当然,欧盟在应对气候变化的斗争中是好人……


Micumatrix
8小时前(修改过)
Indonesia didnt need eu to buy indonesian nickel..We have korean, japanese, china, canada, even indonesia work with australia for ev battery.

印尼不需要欧盟购买印尼镍。韩国、日本、中国、加拿大,甚至印尼都与澳大利亚合作生产电动汽车电池。


The issue is eu forcing indonesia to export raw nickel to eu by attacking indonesia in wto... So eu need indonesia raw nickel and forcing indonesia to export it raw. Imperialsim mentality is strong with eu.

问题在于欧盟通过在世贸组织攻击印尼,迫使印尼向欧盟出口镍原料...... 因此,欧盟需要印尼的未加工镍,并强迫印尼出口未加工镍。欧盟的帝国主义心态很强。


Nenasiek
7小时前
How are we forcing u to sell to us?You gotta follow the rules of the wto if youre in it, thats it.

我们怎么强迫你们卖给我们了?如果你加入了世界贸易组织,就必须遵守该组织的规则,仅此而已。


Jefurihartono
55分钟前
Does eu understand indonesia principles then lol. Go buy ur expensive nickle from chile bruh. We will sell to china

欧盟了解印尼的原则吗?哈哈~~去智利买你昂贵的镍吧,兄弟,我们将卖给中国!


Coaxatr
7小时前
Indonesian politicians love corruption so when you give money, you get the project. If an indonesian politician refuses your money then you just have to look for another politician who wants to accept your money and validate your project. Indonesian principle "As long as there is money there must be a project" Then you just have to look for other politicians who want to accept the corrupt money you offer.

印尼政客喜欢腐败,所以只要你给钱,你就能得到项目。如果一个印尼政客拒绝了你的钱,那么你只需寻找另一个愿意接受你的钱并批准你的项目的政客。印尼的原则是 “只要有钱,就一定有项目”。


Seagitwibo
2小时前
With the standart rules eu place, no raw material such cacao, coffee, timber, gold, oil, diamond from africa couldn't ever enter. But the fact it enter eu easily... It shows one true colors.

在欧盟的标准规则下,非洲的可可、咖啡、木材、黄金、石油、钻石等原材料都无法进入欧盟。但事实上它却能轻而易举地进入欧盟... 这显示了一个国家的真实面目。


Jnfunvufb
9小时前
It is easy for any enveloping countries to perform a high economic growth when poor, but such concession and overconfidence are the reason why they are forever poor. It's called middle income trap. Now, even china is falling in the same trap and certainly cannot seem to be able to escape from it. Indonesia whose practice is very barbaric and still like 20th centuries, their prosperity has limits. Their habit of begging like that won't go anywhere soon.

任何一个包围国在贫穷时都很容易实现经济高速增长,但这种让步和过度自信是它们永远贫穷的原因。这就是所谓的中等收入陷阱。现在,就连中国也陷入了同样的陷阱,而且似乎无法自拔。印度尼西亚的做法非常野蛮,仍然像 20 世纪一样,他们的繁荣是有限度的。他们这样的乞讨习惯不会很快消失。


Alystero
8小时前
The only one begging here is eu.

这里唯一乞讨的是欧盟!


Msdgroup
4小时前
eu population is only 1 billion and they are poor on natural resources while global south has 6 billion population with rich natural resources. For global south, trading to each other is more then enough without worrying about the manipulated usd.

欧盟只有 10 亿人口,自然资源匮乏,而全球南部有 60 亿人口,自然资源丰富。对于全球南方国家来说,相互之间的贸易就足够了,而不用担心被操纵的美元。
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